Would Jesus Have a Beer With Me?

June 17, 2008 at 9:47 pm (Uncategorized) (, , , , , )

I’d like to have an open and honest dialogue with you about Christians and alcohol.

I grew up in a church that said that Christians don’t drink. This was confusing to me because there are many passages in the bible that show Jesus drinking (not to mention that Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine at a party).

On the day of Pentecost, people thought that the Christians were drunk. But Peter explained to the crowd that it was too early for them to be drinking. He didn’t say that these were Christians who don’t drink. He just told the crowd that they don’t drink this early in the morning.

As a child, I often wondered why we drank grape juice instead of wine at the Lord’s Supper.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

We confuse drinking with getting drunk.

Really, it’s American Christians that have this problem.

My wife’s home church in Germany had six kegs at one of there church parties. They weren’t getting plastered. They were just having fun at a church function.

I don’t understand why it can’t be the same here. I don’t understand why people in the church would get mad at me for having a drink with some friends. I don’t understand why it matters.

I’d love to hear some other thoughts on the subject.

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57 Comments

  1. mjdaniel said,

    Dude – that’s because we’re from Arkansas, of course, the folks at HSU knew the best place to party was on OBU’s campus – but that’s a whole other story.

    When I moved to Nashvegas, I was blown away by all of the Christians who drank. It’s still something I don’t post about on my blog because I have so many readers from home who wouldn’t understand the difference in culture.

    I do believe ol’ Jesus would show discretion, so to not being a stumbling block to others, but I do believe he might just have a beer with you – though Chel is pretty sure he’d prefer Red Bull to any other drink.

    mjd

  2. Jared Woodard said,

    Im kinda in the same boat as mjdaniel. I grew up in Southern Mississippi,in a dry county,where if you drank,you were a drunk,end of discussion. Once I got to Nasvhville, and started owning my own faith, I quickly realized that their concept was very wrong, at least for me. I dont belive you are the sum of the things that you do and don’t do, but acually the sum of the way you Love. To bad Jesus himself is not around this earth to acually give us the real answer. Guess thats another one to add to my list of things to ask when I leave. Good Post

  3. Brad Ruggles said,

    Popping open the “keg” on the topic no one in the church likes to talk about huh? 😉

    I’m right there with you man. Drinking (like anything else in life) can and should be done in moderation and control. I think we’ve done more damage in the church by forcing christians to drink behind closed doors rather than addressing it publicly and having honest, frank discussion.

  4. Phil Chalos said,

    I am with you young Skywalker…moderation is the key. I can’t stand it when folks minimize salvation by someone having a cocktail or a beer. Bottoms up!

  5. Jud said,

    Something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately is how we tend to humanize God. This is a real good example perhaps on both ends of the argument. I came from the rigid background to where an entire Sunday morning could be spent parsing over the thought that Jesus really turned the water into Welches grape juice. On the other and you have people with the idea that Jesus liked to hang with drunks, tax men and whores. Actually he liked to change their hearts.

    The flesh wants Jesus to agree with our sensibilities. Beer drinking Jesus, grape juice making Jesus, or 8lb 6 ounce new born don’t even know a word yet baby Jesus.

    In reality most christians and their churches today have replaced Jesus with an idol (idolatry) who they worship and serve and even convert the lost to. I used to have so much trouble with the part of the Bible that talks about a great falling away (within the Church) and the reality that MANY will face Jesus at the Judgement and he doesn’t recognize them. I used to have a lot of trouble with those passages. American Christianity is creating Spiritual bastards. We lack real reverence for God, we don’t understand and proclaim his HOLINESS and his full council. When was the last time you heard an exposition on the Holy and terrifying wrath of God? Our Jesus is more like a neutered metro-sexual.

    I am SO guilty of this.

  6. juliepersinger said,

    Let’s face it. We Christians can be a pretty lousy bunch of people sometimes. We make mountains out of molehills and then decide that we can judge someone’s heart. I grew up with some very legalistic ideas (not from my parents, but at the Christian school and church we attended for a while), and it’s a wonder I came through unscathed.

    Jesus hung out with a lot of riff-raff. He took a lot of flack for it. Yes, I think he would have a beer with you. Beer isn’t evil. Like someone already said – moderation is an issue, yes, but the question isn’t “Would Jesus get totally plastered with me?”

  7. Jessica said,

    Im goona say, I feel the same as you on this subject, The part that I dont think Christians get is that in moderation its fine. I know some of us northener peeps have a little bit of a problem with knowing what that is but I am learning!

    Another thought is when are people going to stop looking at what others do and look at what we ourselves are doing… After all we only have to answer to God about ourselves in the end!

  8. Jad said,

    I think you know my thoughts on this one but I thought I’d put in my two cents worth.

    We can mask this issue several different ways but the real question is not if but WHEN does drinking become sin? I think we have to look at what sin truly is…separation from God. therefore, if you know that drinking tends to make you do __________, and that __________ separates you from God’s will then you’re sinning.

    It certianly is clear cut that being drunk is a sin. The question is how much is too much? No alcohol at all or else you’re going to hell is legalism. All alcohol all the time and ask for forgiveness tomorrow is just plain disobedience. Somewhere there lies a moderate answer but I don’t have it.

    I think Jesus would definitely have a beer with us. We could share a couple of games of darts and pool too. I’m guessing he’d win.

  9. krista said,

    i grew up in a similar church/christian school mode that put a damper on all things alcohol. i agree with a lot of the others that moderation and knowing when to stop, when social drinking turns into problematic drinking, is definitely key. a glass of wine or a beer or two here and there isn’t going to hurt anything, and i don’t get why people get bent out of shape over it either. like you said, Jesus drank. christians in the bible drank. maybe it’s my age asking, but what’s the big deal if you know when to say when?

  10. patrowland said,

    this is an interesting topic and brave for you to address it. I think there are two issues to wrestle with; one being self control, which has already been hit. The second, and what I worry most about is the influence. Does my actions lead another person to a place of sin and judgement?

  11. Laura Morris said,

    Well…all of you know I lived in Germany for almost 20 years and it is safe to say that I like to drink. There was never an occasion that did not involve alcoholic beverages. That being said, I have seen more drunk people here in the States than I ever did in Germany…the key is, knowing when you are going to have a negative influence. My home church switched from wine to grape juice for the Lords supper when a former alcoholic joined the church…knowing when you are going to be a stumbling block is important. This is where I struggle…I do not want anyone else to stumble because I like to drink, but more importantly I never want to be fake…does that make sense?

  12. Bernard Shuford said,

    It’s much more important to be controlled by the Spirit of God than it is to exercise our Christian liberty to drink alcohol. Are we free to consume alcohol? Yes. Is it extremely foolish to do so? Yes.

    Brad Paisley clearly understands the power of alcohol. Why do so many Christians have to be subject to the “chapter and verse” argument rather than exercising the good sense that God gave them?

    I hate alcohol. I hate the wreckage it makes of families and homes. I hate the wreckage it makes of automobiles. I hate the coffins that are purchased due to its influence. I hate the discord it is causing in churches. I am sad for the women who are bruised and battered on Monday morning due to the junk their boyfriend drank over the weekend. For the kids who cower when Daddy comes home late at night. For the Christians who drink, then with slightly clouded judgment, drive home and wind up in jail. For the Christian teenagers who have a taste at a party and wind up pregnant because they lost the little bit of inhibition that they had. For the businessman who has just one drink and then feels a little more free to make a move on the secretary while they’re on a business trip.

    I have no use for the junk. None.

    The Biblical “evidence” against alcohol is not a prohibition that “thou shalt not drink”.

    But I wish it didn’t exist. And yes, I know it’s a natural thing that God “invented”, but trust me, the process of making “quality” alcohol was perfected by men. Just like the process for making atomic bombs.

    Flamesuit on. Disclaimer – I’m a very friendly Christian and I have no beef with Christians who feel they are free to drink. My beef is with alcohol. There’s a difference 🙂

  13. Jared Woodard said,

    @ Bernard Shuford. It seems all of the above examples are of pepole drinking to much alcohol. If someone is unable to moderate,then I completley agree,they should’nt consume, but it seems in all of your examples that the blame is more on the person,rather than the alcohol,am I wrong?

    To me,its kind of like the saying “Gun’s dont kill pepole,pepole kill pepole” .Alchohol doesnt cause wrecks, abuse, pregnancy, etc, but bad choices DO.

    P.S.:Not making excuses for any of these things.I think their all horrible,I think we just need to be carefull where we place the blame.

  14. Laura Morris said,

    I agree, Jared…the bottom line is, we live in a sinful world where everything can be used in an evil way…including alcohol…the only strength we will ever have against all evil is abiding in Christ…and that is hard for me…

  15. Jad said,

    @Bernard Shuford: “Extremely foolish” to drink alcohol? Are we wearing the judgment pants a little too tight today?

  16. Rachel said,

    I am gonna go ahead and say that alcohol isn’t bad. A can of beer isn’t staring you in the face saying drink 10 of me at once. We are the ones that make that decision. If we say that alcohol is bad because IT MAY lead to other things then we need to stop driving cars, because we MIGHT speed and cause an accident… etc… I think, that like anything else, moderation is key. Knowing your limits is key. Examining why you’re drinking is key. Exercising self-control is important. Honestly, I have really had some great heart-to-hearts with good friends over a beer or glass of wine. These are people that most-likely would have never set foot inside a church… and I don’t think that I sacrificed my witness by having a drink with them… if anything, I would hope that they learned that loving Jesus isn’t about a rulebook with a church acting as the rule-breaker police. BUT… that’s just my two cents 🙂

  17. Rachel said,

    And… I am a little confused by Bernard’s post. It’s my understanding that we are solely speaking about alcohol… and not getting drunk. There’s a difference. I drink, but not to get drunk…

  18. candidchatter said,

    I would have a beer with Jesus, if He offered. I like beer.

    I used to be married to an alcholic so it took me a long time to realize it wasn’t the alcohol that was the problem. It was him.

    Anyway, I see nothing wrong with it as a social thing w/out the drunkenness.

    Saw you on Anne J’s site. Good post.

    Heidi Reed

  19. MicroBrew said,

    Drinking…not a problem. Getting drunk….problem.

    Buzzed…gray area (and I’ve been guilty of this a few times).

  20. Jonathan said,

    I remember being told that Jesus drank unfermented wine…. Why would you drink that?

  21. Randy Cook said,

    Jarrod…..do you need to borrow my wheel barrow?

  22. Bernard Shuford said,

    If I stepped on toes in a fashion that was judgmental or hateful, I’m genuinely sorry. I don’t mean to judge or hurt anyone, especially on a blog where I’ve never commented before. Alcohol is just a subject that sort of gets under my skin.

    @Jarrod – the reason I blame alcohol is because of Proverbs 20:1. I understand that there are tons of verses which speak of wine as a good thing. Please note that I do NOT condemn alcohol from a Biblical standpoint. Thus, I don’t attack those who drink it. I attack alcohol because I believe it is very deceptive. Many who think they can handle it, actually cannot, because it is more powerful than they realize.

    I’ll make as much clarification in one more sentence as I can…

    I do not claim it is sinful to drink alcohol, but I do maintain that there is MUCH advice in the Bible to not allow alcohol to control us in any fashion, either in the short term or in the long term.

    In the love of Christ and hopefully with no judgmental spirit,
    Bernard

  23. Lea Sims said,

    Bernard, I think you’re making very valid points. I grew up in the Catholic church and everyone drank, including priests (often to great excess) and there was never a word said about it. I share so many of your reasons for disliking alcohol – mostly that I’ve never seen any good come from engaging in it. Not that it’s evil or that the Bible is clear one way or the other on the subject (other than to avoid drunkness), just simply that I have seen nothing to convince me that making that choice is going to lead to anything edifying – quite the contrary, there are many risks and pitfalls and no benefit to offset those risks (with the exception of the really weak argument that it will somehow prevent heart disease). There is only the choice to do it “in moderation” offset against a slew of reasons why we should avoid it completely – not the least of which is the potential stumblingblock of confusion it may potentially create for those who witness us doing it.

    For me personally, given the choice to drink in “moderation” or stay out of God’s way when drawing people into relationship with Him, I choose the latter every time. Even if we can eloquently argue why our moderate drinking shouldn’t be misconstrued by those who witness it, the fact that it can and does is reason enough for me to avoid it, regardless of all the ideological debates about whether Jesus would have a beer.

  24. Chilly said,

    Who needs it?? Seriously…

    Live where I do, and you’ll see the results of alcohol on our culture (particularly families). Teaching moderation in an excessive & abusive culture seems a bit naive.

    I could drink but I won’t.

    Not here, not when I’m in Europe (or any other ‘acceptable’ setting).

    I don’t need it.

    Jesus won’t be having a beer with me.

  25. jarrodmorris said,

    I think you guys are all making good points even if you don’t agree with each other. Again, this is just a discussion. I just want to know why you feel the way you do about drinking. I don’t want to push people one way or the other.

    I don’t even like beer!

  26. GENERATE BLOG said,

    […] Would Jesus Have a Beer With Me? […]

  27. Bush said,

    I love beer. I love Jesus. I wish it wasn’t so taboo. People are missing out.
    Good discussion here.

  28. amoslanka said,

    “We confuse drinking with getting drunk.”

    We also confuse legalism with following Christ.

    “I don’t understand why it can’t be the same here.”

    It can, we just have to make it so by accepting alcohol and standing up against the stupidity in the legalism of the doctrine of “absolutely no alcohol”. Its not a matter of flipping a switch and making it go away. Its a matter of starting to change and standing up for what we believe is right.

  29. mandoron said,

    Wow. I’ve been thinking about blogging on this, but haven’t had the guts…

    I don’t drink at all, and never have. Only in the last five years or so, have I been around Christians who drank alcohol (usually in moderation). I have to admit, I’m still not comfortable about it. I don’t necessarily think it’s a sin, but I just choose not to do it.

    I do think that the last few years, it has become “Christian cool” to go hang out at the bar and have a few drinks in moderation with your Christian friends and talk about God. I also don’t like the idea of having alcohol at official or unoffical church events.

    No judgement. Just uncomfortable for me. Probably has a lot to do with growing up in a no-alcohol church and having a grandfather who died from alcoholism.

    Thanks to everyone for sharing! Great discussion.

  30. Rich Kirkpatrick said,

    Jarrod is simply… cool. Good thoughts here. Culture really is important. We should always be wary if we make our own subculture.

  31. Jared Woodard said,

    @ Bernard. I think you make a very valid point,and Proverbs 20:1 is a GREAT verse for this.In the Message it’s worded ” Wine makes you mean,beer makes you quarrelsome,a staggering drunk is not much fun.”

    I love that this is a place where pepole can discuss taboo topics like this,and understand other pepoles point of view,even if they dont agree.Props to Morris for posting this!

  32. Bernard Shuford said,

    Seriously, all sarcasm aside… Why DO Christians need to drink? I’m wide open and genuinely wondering why we NEED to. Not just whether we CAN, but why some folks genuinely think we’re “missing out” if we don’t or that we SHOULD drink.

  33. pillpopper said,

    What would you guys say to me or about me if you knew I took the ‘dreaded’ drug Oxycontin on a regular basis…like everyday? Would you say I was addicted to the drug & I need to go to rehab?

    I don’t like it when people jump to conclusions about my use of this miraculous drug & I don’t like it when people jump to conclusions about drinking. Both the churched & un-churched.

    I’d prefer to just simply stay away from the spirits rather then give someone gas to pour on my already sinful nature. I can do without it just like I can do with out the bucket of ice cream at nite & man do I like ice cream. I guess also because we rarely know who around us has had problems with alcohol because they won’t talk about their problems or are just embarrassed or whatever reason. I found out that one of my friends was an alcoholic who fell hard off the wagon and to see her sloppy drunk these past several months and her marriage breaking up is sickening. I know a drink and a drunk aren’t the same but my point is that I NEVER knew she had a drinking problem until I found out she was drinking again. I pretty much agree with Chilly.

    And about my drug usage – it is taken because of past cancer & cancer treatment and surgeries and radiation and chemo and surgeries (close to 10+). See, this drug helps me live a normal family life free from intense crippling pain and all the badness that goes along with pain. W/out me telling you this would you have judged me a little harsher? Most do & I guess that’s why it’s so easy for me to stay away from the booze because I just don’t want to be a stumbling block to another person over such a lame reason – taste of beer, or wine, etc.

    Remember we have freedom in Christ but we need to use that freedom right if we are causing another to stumble then we should chill out some.

    my .02cents.

  34. Ruth said,

    I’m working in Asia, where it is the norm to have alcohol with each meal. I’ve met some believers who tell new converts (locals) that the Word says they can’t drink, and that totally alarmed me when I first heard it. I thought to myself… “does the WORD say that or some man-made creed” because there IS a difference. So it spurred me on to seek out what I believed on this issue. I grew up in a very conservative home where there was no alcohol and I knew if I drank it I would get into lots of trouble. Somewhere along the way, I made the personal decision not to drink, of which I am glad. I still honor that decision today, but I do not in any way see where the Word says not to drink. Nor do I see it as a problem if my friends do. Getting drunk, however, is an entirely different issue.

  35. Laura Morris said,

    @Bernard
    I don’t feel like I NEED to drink and I don’t believe that anyone is “mission out” on anything if they don’t drink and I don’t see that any of these posts say that everyone SHOULD drink .
    I think it is simple:
    Drinking an alcoholic beverage to have a beverage= fine.
    Drinking an alcohlic beverage to get drunk or getting drunk=bad.

  36. Jeremy said,

    Here’s a question no one has ever answered satisfactorily for me.
    -Why do you want to drink that beer?-
    If you know it’s wrong to get drunk and you don’t need a little alcohol to stay dysentery free, then why?

    As to the whole lord’s supper thing. The gospel writers go out of their way to avoid the word wine. In each case they refer to the “fruit of the vine.”
    Lk 22:18
    Mk 14:25
    Mt 26:29

    Just my 2 cents

  37. Jud said,

    Checking back in and thought of a different twist, removing the substance to clear things up a bit hopefully.

    This is all about Perception.

    As a married man I stay at work late to get some things taken care of for the next morning. I have a choice, do I work in my classroom or do I work in the teacher work room which has nice big windows that people pass by frequently? I would be working alone and unseen in my classroom but in the more comfortable workroom, again with large windows and traffic, a friend who is a female is working as well. I choose the workroom. All I’m thinking about is getting finished and getting home to my wife, all she’s thinking is getting finished and heading home to her husband.

    A student who stayed late for math tutoring walks by with her Mom who has come to pick her up. They glance through the windows of the workroom…. and draw a totally WRONG conclusion.

    What the heck am I doing out of my classroom!

    Bottom line, while we can control ourselves (thoughts and actions) we can’t control those of others once we leave a shadow of a doubt.

  38. Melissa said,

    Most of you know my view on this as well. I enjoy having a beer because I like the taste of it. Now, I won’t be drinking for the next seven months, but I will probably have a few non-alcholic beers over this time period. I think that the taste is very refreshing. So, I wouldn’t say I “need” to drink, but I do enjoy a nice cold beer in a frosty mug. Great topic Jarrod.

  39. Phil Chalos said,

    We always tend to complicate matters. If you are uncomfortable about having a drink …don”t. If you feel drinking will cause someone to stumble …don’t.

  40. Christians & Drinking? « Jeremy’s Weblog said,

    […] & Drinking? I left this comment in this blog earlier today.  So I’ll ask my readers to answer it. Here’s a question no one has ever […]

  41. tony g said,

    I like to have a beer now and then. Especially after mowing the lawn. Nothing like a tall cold one on a hot summer day.

    I think a big part of this discussion and all the hoo-ha it causes stems from the fact that it’s nice to point out the sins of others. Makes us feel better about ourselves.

    Ever notice that we tend to point out sins that we don’t struggle with in our own lives?

    Abuse of alcohol is an easy target. It’s a lot more fun to point out as a sin then, say, greed, or gluttony.

    Sure, the abuse of alcohol takes a toll on families, lives, etc. I won’t debate that. So does gluttony, and the issues it causes (heart disease, etc). And greed, and the issues it causes (materialism, work-aholics, etc).

  42. Jud said,

    Tony the exact question was “Would Jesus have a beer with me” not “Would Jesus help me finish a monster bag of Doritos “

  43. tony g said,

    Jud – I’m sorry if you think I got off topic. The original post said…

    “I don’t understand why it can’t be the same here. I don’t understand why people in the church would get mad at me for having a drink with some friends. I don’t understand why it matters.”

    I was trying to answer his “I don’t understand why” question.

    I think people at church get mad at him for having a drink with some friends BECAUSE we like to point out the sins of others (especially the ones that we don’t personally struggle with) in an effort to make us feel better about ourselves. Gluttony and greed were the two examples I could come up with off the top of my head since I eat too much and want too much stuff.

    My point was that we’re quite quick to point and say “Tony drinks too much” since it’s an obvious problem that most of us don’t struggle with regularly.

    We’re much slower to point and say “Tony should back away from the Doritos”… since I’m a relatively thin guy, and no one can see what the Doritos are doing to my internal organs, and gee whiz I think I’d like a bag of Doritos too now that I think about it…

  44. Jud said,

    Gotcha Tony.

  45. From Rob To Jarrod said,

    Jarrod,
    I am glad that you are married and a proud father. I cannot wait to be in your position and it is amazing that you are a worship leader.

    I actually spent 3 years living in Germany. Germany’s drinking age is 16 year old. Being a father, you would understand Germany wouldn’t be the best source of credibility to base good judgment off of. I’m sure you wouldn’t want your kids drinking at that age. Lets check the fruit on the tree before we start following.

    Jarrod the perception I get when you say “I don’t understand”, tells me A) that “You don’t understand” and that you need an answer or B) you are looking for an excuse to drink. Did you post this for discussion or for answers? Dude I’m sorry that I’m being so blunt but think about this for a moment. Would you bring a keg let alone six into your church to have a good time? Why don’t we bring a bottle of Jack into the church? Would that be OK?… Absolutely not. It is definitely not American Christians who have the problem. I am not as strong as you must be. If you and I were kickin it and you would have a beer, you would be putting me in a position of temptation due to the fact that one beer for me turns into twelve.

    By the way, obviously your friends don’t care whether you drink or not. Knowing that there Christian friend drinks would give them even more reason to drink. What are they saying when you aren’t there? Dude you’re the Worship Leader. What would your church say if they saw you having a beer at a restaurant or came over for a bible study and you just had a beer at your house. Did you post your questions on Crosspoints website or ask your pastor what he thinks about the subject? If you did what did he say?

    Let’s get serious… The blog sounds to me like you are defending alcohol and looking for people to agree with you. You said, “I don’t understand why it matters.” It obviously matters to you and me. If you have good reason backed up by scripture to disagree with me that says lets drink Heinekens and Jaeger Bombs during fellowship, I encourage you to please let me know. You say that “things don’t need to change on the outside only the joy in your heart” and I say “What fruits are you bearing when you are having a beer.” I believe that things will change when you are progressing in your spiritual walk. Talk to ya soon brotha.

  46. jarrodmorris said,

    Careful Rob! My wife is from Germany where the drinking age is 16 and she’s a better person than you and I put together.

    I’m sorry that you wouldn’t be able to just have one beer in a night. I’ve never been adicted so I don’t know what that’s like.

    I wasn’t looking for an argument. I was looking for a discussion on why Christians think drinking is wrong even though the bible dosn’t say that it is.

    I don’t know about “Heinekens and Jaeger Bombs,” but scripture shows wine at church events all through the bible.(passover, The Lord’s Supper)

    By the way, church is not just a building or place, it’s the body of Christ.

    Feel free to email me. jarrod@crosspoint.tv

  47. Laura Morris said,

    To Rob from Jarrod’s wife

    First of all, let’s remind ourselves that in every discussion people will take different sides. Obviously this is the case here.
    Let’s take a look at Jarrod’s statement that you refer to:
    “I don’t understand why it can’t be the same here. I don’t understand why people in the church would get mad at me for having a drink with some friends. I don’t understand why it matters.”
    A) He wants to know thoughts on the subject, so yes; he wants an answer from people regarding their views. That is what blogs are for.
    B) He does not need an excuse to drink. He obviously does not have a problem with it so he does not need an excuse.
    Rob…we are not talking about getting DRUNK. You are completely confusing the two. Let’s talk about your statement:” It is defiantly not American Christians who have the problem.” So, I am assuming you are saying that German Christians do have a problem. I beg to differ. In my 20 years of growing up there, I barely saw a drunk person. Was I having a beer here or there when I was a teen? Yes. Was everyone getting drunk? No. Do I know of anyone who died in an accident due to a drunk driver while I was there? No. The problem is not with alcohol. The problem is with self control. And I am very sorry that you have a problem drinking just one beer. I’m sure you have friends who understand and do not drink in front of you. Are you telling me though, that if you see someone drinking an alcoholic beverage at a restaurant you judge them? Because if that is the case, it’s just sad.
    So, I am defending alcohol. I am not defending getting drunk. I love my glass of red wine with dinner, and if I were in Germany raising my son where the drinking age is 16, I might have a glass with him.
    You asked my husband what “fruits he was bearing” when he is having a beer. Obviously you did not read the whole blog because he does not even like beer. So, since I like beer, I will answer that question: I would hopefully still be bearing the fruits of the spirit like I strive to do on a daily basis.
    And lastly, you should probably not take Gods job of knowing where someone is on their “spiritual walk”.

  48. Jeff said,

    I would like to understand the people that have brought up with “causing your brother to stumble” though what it really means to cause a brother to stumble. At this point is seems like yet another excuse for one to not accept responsibility for their actions and blame me for something I may or may not being doing.
    Please help me understand the whole stumbling part.

  49. Jud said,

    Since this horse is still twitching ……

    Jeff,

    Romans 13:14>

    Therefore let us not (U)judge one another anymore, but rather determine this–(V)not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.

    14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that (W)nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who (X)thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

    15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer (Y)walking according to love (Z)Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

    16Therefore (AA)do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;

    17for the kingdom of God (AB)is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and (AC)peace and (AD)joy in the Holy Spirit.

    18For he who in this way (AE)serves Christ is (AF)acceptable to God and approved by men.

    19So then [a]we (AG)pursue the things which make for peace and the (AH)building up of one another.

    20(AI)Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food (AJ)All things indeed are clean, but (AK)they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.

    21(AL)It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.

    22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who (AM)does not condemn himself in what he approves.

    23But (AN)he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

  50. Rob said,

    I apologize that I have offended you Jarrod and Laura. I did not realize that alcohol was such a big part of your lives to the point of getting offended. By the way I was in Germany and being a cop at the time I did see a lot of alcohol related incidents. I did watch a drunk German guy punch a girl in the face. I saw people die from drinking and driving. I watched bar and street fights and was involved in them while drinking. With that said I have seen the same thing in America. Also I don’t appreciate anyone talking smack about Americans so I replied defending American Christians. I apologize for giving the impression that Germans have a problem. Since the post said “Would Jesus have a Beer with me?” I assumed Jarrod drank beer. My bad. I am glad you are both defending what you believe. We both have different views on the subject. To be honest I was wrong for questioning your spiritual walk. I definately had a problem with self control to the point where I ended up doing some bad things and hurting some people in my life. You might understand the feelings I have towards alcohol. I never want anybody to make those same mistakes and so my goal is to burn those bridges. Alcoholism, I can almost bet starts with just a beer. Some people can handle just a beer, some people want more. I am glad you can control yourself. Unfortunately the world and commercials want to make it sound like your life won’t be normal without alcohol. So now you know that some people in the church have a problem with alcohol and that is a reason why you wouldn’t bring alcohol to a church party. Take a look at this website. I know that we are not talking about being drunk but here are some things that alcohol has produced.

    http://www.alcohol-information.com/Alcohol_Statistics.html

  51. Laura Morris said,

    Rob.
    Thanks for the post. Alcohol is actually not a big part of our lives, but I must admit that it was offensive to me when you judged our spirituality and the culture of a different country because of the consumption of alcoholic beverages. I don’t like it when people talk smack about Germans either. Again, cultures are different. That does not make one better than the other….just different.
    You are right though, the world does make it seem like alcohol is necessary and for some it can be addicting….just like a lot of other things this world has to offer. I am also glad that you are defending what you believe in…And lets face it…we are all the body of Christ here on earth.Peace…

  52. Julie Taylor said,

    I might as well throw my two cents in…

    Sometimes I feel like drinking alcohol and going out to bars is one of the most effective tools I have as I am trying to share God’s love with those around me. I think there is something to be said for meeting our non-Christian friends in the environments where they feel most comfortable. I have had many, many more conversations about God and my faith over a beer or glass of wine than I have over a cup of coffee or out to lunch.

    Maybe it is meeting people where they are comfortable… Maybe it is the extended amount of time that I tend to spend with my friends when we go out for a drink… All I know is that it sure seems like there have been times when God has been present.

    And hopefully, by the grace of God, I will see the lives of those whom I deeply care about changed because of it.

  53. Andy Depuy said,

    Jarrod
    What a great topic to talk about.

  54. Jonathan Hopson said,

    Both you and your wife are awesome! Thanks for the frank discussion nobody wants to talk about.

  55. Jonathan Hopson » Blog Archive » Bars and Church said,

    […] lately about christians drinking beer, churches meeting in bars, does Jesus belong in a pub, would jesus have a beer with me, and many many others. The list of sites discussing this issue is huge. I have huge respect for […]

  56. Leah said,

    Bernard, Totally valid point. “Why do Christians NEED to drink”. I recall asking a similar question when I was younger, “If your husband thinks you are beautiful and should love you the way you are, then why wear make-up?”

    The answer is: You don’t NEED to. It’s a personal choice. From my interpretation of the bible, It’s not right or wrong to wear make-up. It’s not right or wrong to drink.

    I think the whole point is not to worry about what everybody else is doing. Some people like a glass of wine with dinner. Some people put on make-up before leaving the house. Make-up can make a pretty girl- beautiful. Wine can make a good steak-great!

  57. robdrums said,

    Great topic! I grew up in a church where drinking was considered sin so guess what I did- DRANK! I turned my back on God and did everything on my terms. Then at the age of 24 I decided to stop drinking. I was starting to see the bad side of drinking ( friend’s suicide, almost getting DUI, etc.). I got into a 12-step program for 3 years and haven’t drank for almost 15 years now.
    Anyway, do I think drinking is wrong? Not at all. It’s the excess that is the problem. One of my pastors enjoys a glass of wine sometimes as does his father whoI happen to think is one of the greatest men of God today. My wife has a drink on occasion as do alot of our friends from church. I just choose not to, but I will down a couple of O’doul’s Ambers from time to time.
    People who drink alcohol should do so not to medicate or try to escape from the realities of life. They should do so in celebration of life. As for the question asking if Jesus would have a beer with you, we’ll just have to see one day.

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